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July 30, 2011
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I don't care how you grew up. Whether you were force fed religion or grew up with none. Whether you grew to hate religion all together or you love the idea of it, but you think it isn't for you. Whether you respect it and would never take it away from someone, but you would also never attend religious related events. Anyone and everyone, in MY OPINION should be, at the very least, agnostic.

Why? Well, for the simple reason of admitting to the fact YOU DON'T KN OW EVERYTHING. From the moment of birth to the second you die you are constantly learning. You are always finding things out that you once did not know existed.

Everyone needs to accept the reality of life. There are things out there that we do not yet understand, and some things we may never understand. For example, I can't grasp the fact that there are people so willingly dumb in this world. I know it exists, but I just don't know how. So, until you KNOW because you have the PROOF that will end the religious debate forever, you DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE. It is PURELY only YOUR opinion on the matter. And, honestly I have no issue with other peoples opinions. I respect them, they let me learn new things, or realize just how much smarter I am compared to you. But, still, despite the fact that it is YOUR OPINION, WHY do you talk about the subject as if you KNOW?

Sure, confidence is a key trait in people that some people would kill to have. But you don't realize just how arrogant you sound when you act like you know something that you can't even begin to grasp mentally. The fact you are willing to say that God, or some deity, does not exist shows to the world that you have no real grasp on religion or the fundamental values they bring to those that don't abuse it. If you are unable to grasp religion mentally, why do you talk as if you know for a fact that there is no higher being? It makes no sense to me.

For that reason, I hate Atheists. Not because they don't believe in my religion, but because they are so arrogant to believe that they KNOW for a FACT despite having NO REAL EVIDENCE or PROOF that it doesn't exist. And, when I say I hate Atheists, I don't mean I hate them in terms of a person, but I hate them in terms of a belief system. I don't hate the people, I hate their mentality. I hate their arrogance. I hate their stubbornness. I hate their refusal to believe in something, or at least be open minded.

But, I guess it makes sense. If a person is unable to have faith in something, they would be a bad candidate for any religion, as religion is based off faith. If they can't believe in something in life, how could they ever believe in a religion and what they have to offer?

Now, as I ranted enough at the moment about Atheists, I want to talk about Agnostic folk. I love you guys. You are like the more mature Atheists. Instead of refusing to believe what every one says about religion, you stay open minded. You are willing to believe. You are willing to have faith. You don't mock others beliefs, because you are able to see the value in religion. You know there is a possibility that there IS some higher being because, as a human, we do not know everything.

Furthermore on this subject, who are you people to say it doesn't exist? Didn't realize you were born with infinite knowledge and that you know this. Didn't realize you checked and in fact saw there was no God in heaven. Didn't realize a person could be so stubborn. You have no real clue do you? You have no real solid evidence, do you? You are only going by what your faulty, obviously screwed up brain, is thinking, aren't you? You got no proof, so not one of you Atheists know for sure. Not one of you Atheists can even begin to know for sure. Finding an answer to whether there is a higher being is far out of your reach, as it takes understanding and a willing to learn, which you do not have.

Atheists and Agnosticby TheWandererNears

Literature / Prose / Non-Fiction / Philosophical©2011-2014 TheWandererNears
Atheists and agnostic folk are discussed here.
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MauEvig Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Agreed. I'm an agnostic, because I feel there is insufficient evidence one way or another.
Someone told me I had to be an agnostic athiest because there isn't a middle ground, but there is. I'm that middle ground. I neither believe nor disbelieve in God, because I don't know what to believe. I don't hate athiests, but I do get tired of atheism.
In my opinions both theists and atheists can be pushy, although not all people on either side are bad.
I try to keep an open mind. My life is always in the pursuit of knowledge, and why we are here, what our purpose is. If there is no purpose, then I create a purpose for myself to exist. I admit I tend to argue the opposing side on either account.
I liked this speech though. I respect people on both sides, but I consider myself neither one.
TheWandererNears Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Well, friend, i know a website that you may enjoy. Not pushing a single side your way, but you seem to be one that would appreciate facts and hard physical evidence.

To further show im not pushing a side, i wont link unless you are up for.

But either way, I'm glad you enjoyed the reading :3
Shiftehh Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2011
Okay, I do with you somewhat about Atheistic mentality. But you are indeed a hypocrite. You condemn Atheists for their arrogance but are so obviously full of it yourself "I respect them, they let me learn new things, or realize just how much smarter I am compared to you". And then you went on to condone Agnostics for not mocking others beliefs when you were yourself completely raving against the Atheistic beliefs.

Yes, there is no solid scientific proof for Atheists in saying that a God does not exist, but I'm afraid there none that exists for the other side of the argument either.. That is why the debate exists, its a philosophical argument. I can kinda see why you are so ranty against them, but you should learn to be more diplomatic with your approach otherwise you will find yourself treading the same tracks as they do. You said no one has all the answers, then don't speak as if you do.
TheWandererNears Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
What you said would have been entirely correct if you didn't pass something over. Atheists don't have a belief, hence why they are atheists. So therefore I did not rave against atheists beliefs, because they have none.

So with that said, you can start apologizing
Shiftehh Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2011
That's clutching at straws to be honest. You were condemning their world view at the very least which can be paralleled with beliefs, whether they be secular or spiritual. Atheists do have beliefs as much as they will want to disagree; they have utter faith and devotion to science for instance, they think all of lives answers have to proven via scientific method. And I have no need to apologize, I was offering only offering some constructive criticism or if you want, a second opinion from someone who also dislikes the Atheistic attitude.
xingli Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2011
I realize I'm extremely late to this party, but this is my first time back on deviantart in a very long time, and this was one of the first things I read, so here goes. Upfront, I am an atheist, here to defend myself. I know you've probably heard a lot of this, but I'm trying to put my spin on it.

I know it may not be the vernacular or the common understanding of the words, but most who identify as atheists do not view the spectrum of belief as you have described. As an atheist, I say that theism and atheism are beliefs about existence. They are ontological beliefs. Agnosticism and gnosticism (I use gnosticism as simply the opposite of agnosticism, not the Christian sect) are beliefs concerning knowledge. They are epistemological beliefs. So in this delineation, agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive. I think the confusion stems from the idea that these particular brands of agnosticism and gnosticism, in their more general definitions of belief over whether a claim is knowable, are concerned with existence itself, which makes them seem ontological in nature.

The effect of this structure is that there is a 2x2 grid formed in terms of belief, with epistemological beliefs at one axis and ontological beliefs at the other. I think of myself as an agnostic atheist. I think this structure isn't paid attention to in believer circles because epistemological beliefs aren't as apparent for theism. I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I agree with you, who appears to be an agnostic theist, that knowledge of the existence of God does not seem to be knowable. But I don't believe in God. That is it. The Atheists that you hate, strictly classified as gnostic atheists, are a great minority among the atheist community, but they seem to get more attention because they are also very much more likely to be assholes. The atheist you rail against seems to have said "God doesn't exist" because of some arrogant claim to knowledge from his life that has no substance. I hate those guys too, they're obnoxious. But it's not the atheist that you hate. 90% of it is just the asshole.
And I definitely agree with you that agnosticism is the way to go. Whether agnostic atheist or agnostic theist, it's simply much less arrogant to believe that knowledge of God's existence is knowable.

I'm trying to get you on my side here, but let's move on.

"...who are you people to say it doesn't exist? Didn't realize you were born with infinite knowledge and that you know this."

See, that's the thing, we don't know this. There's no solid evidence toward the existence of God (at least in atheists' eyes), and evidence of nonexistence in nonsensical. So we're left in this state of not knowing. But why is it then irrational to not believe in this case? To risk pulling out a cliche, if I told you right now that there is an invisible, intangible, and altogether undetectable unicorn behind you, do you believe me? You have no inclination to, and to an atheist, God is as ridiculous as the unicorn, and if you wanna play the "logically impossible" card, an atheist can come back just as well.

Now, we're not sure about it, just as you're not sure about the unicorn. If you heard good evidence for the unicorn, you might be more inclined to believe, just as we would be. That being said, I can churn out a few issues with a few select gods, if you like, that justify my lack of belief.

But the main thing I want to fix is your vitriol for atheists. Don't pretend like it's not there. You called me arrogant. You called me immature. You called me stubborn and closed minded. And you didn't even identify me correctly. Not all atheists are assholes that want the word "God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance or the money, I don't even care about that. Not all atheists are aggressive and trying to strike out at Christians. I don't know if your perception of atheists is based off of bias or just talking with malformed atheists. But stop generalizing, it hurts.
Kaiju-popsicle Featured By Owner Oct 17, 2011  Student General Artist
So, how do you know Atheists are not willing to learn? Theists are not allowed to question. We Atheists question most everything. Why? How? What is that? Why do you think that? What is your motive for doing such a thing? It is because we question that we have reached such a stance. It seems to me you're getting angry at us for no reason, calling us such things. It's silly really. I see it like this. Man=faulty. Man wrote bible. Bible=faulty.
TheWandererNears Featured By Owner Oct 17, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
I just want to point out to you "Man=faulty. Man wrote bible. Bible=faulty." really tickled my senses. People usually get mad when I say that. So, respect to you on that one. I mean, I don't automatically say the Bible is faulty, but I bring up the possibility that any one of the writers could have added anything they wanted in.

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

1. atheist - someone who denies the existence of god

atheism Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god.

disbelieve 1. trans. Not to believe or credit; to refuse credence to: a. a statement or (alleged) fact: To reject the truth or reality of.

"The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism. With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god."

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The definition of Atheists is exactly why I say you aren't willing to learn. If these DEFINITIONS don't DEFINE you, then you are not a Atheist, you just thought you were. Always questioning but accepting factual answers when they come to you is being Agnostic. Which is believing there is a chance, that we don't know everything so if the facts come to you, you will accept the facts for being facts.

Catch my drift, good sir? Or ma'am even.
Kaiju-popsicle Featured By Owner Oct 17, 2011  Student General Artist
The bible was also transmitted orally. It could have once been something rather ordinary, blown into the unbelievable thing it is today. Like the game telephone, or a disease that changed as it went from person to person.

I see it like this: gods are created by humans to explain phenomena that they do not understand, and are sometimes used like a security blanket. The Christian god is called a "safe refuge". I see their god as a coping mechanism. They need an all-powerfull daddy figure to back them up and give them confidence, or to explain where the hell all this stuff came from. I am fine not knowing everything. BUT. You cannot use definitions of words to define people. We're all different. Not every religious person will fit the definition of their religion. Stupid humans. All DIVERSE and stuff.
TheWandererNears Featured By Owner Oct 18, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
That's one opinion at looking at it, but if there is a definition to a word, and one claims they are that word, then they gotta fit the definition. Otherwise they aren't that word. It's why the definition exists and is placed in such dictionary like areas. So people know what the word actually means. I'm sure you know the importance of definitions in our world today. So whether or not people are diverse, it barely matters when it comes to definitions.

You may just want to believe that definitions to words mean nothing when it comes to classifications, but they do matter. Otherwise they wouldn't exist. Sounds to me saying otherwise is just a way to try to escape from being called something else when in the past you prided over being able to call yourself an Atheist, and you found out that is no longer the case.

Added to that, sounds to me that believing people make Gods up just as a refuge of some sort sounds more to me that those that think that way simply don't want to believe there is a chance there is an afterlife, and don't want to deal with their worldy mistakes in the proposed Hell. So they feel as long as they deny it, maybe it won't be true. But the real truth here is once we die we will find out just who is right, and for the sake of those that don't want to believe, you better pray there is no after life, because the first chance I get to say 'I told you so' once we are dead and the said people are rotting away in Hell, I will take that chance and tell you. Even if I am down there with these people, I would waste no time saying I told you so, and that you could have done better after having a chat with me.

So, looks to me believing in nothing is being cowardly and just trying to hide behind saying there is nothing, just so you don't have to take responsibility for what you have done in your life. I see people with faith, ANY faith at that, as people that have more morals, know how to appreciate things in life better and at least know how to have faith in something. I would sooner date and be more willing to date someone that has ANY faith as opposed to one that doesn't. Because then I would see that this person is capable of knowing they did wrong if they were to cheat. I would know that going into it that this person would be one that would be able to have faith in me as a boyfriend or husband, but also be FAITHFUL in the said relationship.

And I believe many more feel that way as well. To all I said. So, by all means think that God is man made, but you better hope that is the case, because there is no room in Heaven for those that deny God.
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